- PROCESS & SCHEDULE
- SAGA
- QUOTE
- Weights
- Q&A
- Neil Sails
- Code 65
- Code 55
- A2
- SAIL PLAN
- UPWIND
- DOWNWIND
- CROSSOVER FILES (FOR ADRENA OCTOPUS)
PROCESS & SCHEDULE
- North needs technical information from Outremer (dimensions) to design a sail
- Color of sails, number, cars, mast, deck plan…
- Today has a plan in 2D but maybe not the final dimension
- Logistics: loft in Minden, shipped sails to Vannes then LGM
- Deadline for sails to be in LGM by June 1st
- North needs 10 weeks for the whole process (Design + Fabrication + Delivery)
- Polars…
- After order, need 1 week minimum for sail design
- Flat sails
- Downwind sails
SAGA
Hours (%) | TWS 0-9 | TWS 10-19 | TWS 20-29 | TWS 30+ | TOTAL hours |
TWA 60- | 231 (4%) | 267 (5%) | 73 (1.5%) | 4 (0%) | 575 (11%) |
TWA 60-90 | 78 (1.5%) | 282 (5%) | 64 (1%) | 0 (0%) | 424 (8%) |
TWA 90-110 | 156 (3%) | 304 (6%) | 116 (2%) | 0 (0%) | 576 (11%) |
TWA 110-140 | 204 (4%) | 738 (14%) | 116 (2%) | 20 (0.4%) | 1078 (21%) |
TWA 140+ | 155 (3%) | 1,883 (36%) | 518 (10%) | 38 (0.5%) | 2594 (49%) |
TOTAL hours | 824 (16%) | 3,474 (66%) | 887 (17%) | 62 (1%) | 5247 (100%) |
Notes
- 5,247 hours is equivalent to 219 days or 31 weeks or 7 months
- 1,000 hours is equivalent to 41 days or 6 weeks or 1.4 months
QUOTE
QFR39262 12 DECEMBRE 2022
Weights
Sail | Weight (kg)
(in bag) | Comments |
Main | 82 kg | w/o cars and battens |
Genoa | 38.5 kg | |
Staysail | 24 kg | w/ cable |
Code 65 | 42 kg | w/ cable |
A2 | 34 kg | w/ snuffer |
S4 |
North Sails
Sail Area (m2) | Max AWS | Angles
(AWA) | North Material | North Pricing | Incidence
Sail Area (m2) | Hugues | ||
RANDOM | SAILBAG (2 zippers)
- Boom a raquette (hay rack)
BLACK & WHITE stickers on sails and B&W on sail bag (Outremer / North Sails) | |||||||
Main | 95 m2? | 40 knots (?) | 3Di Ocean 700 | |||||
Genoa | 60 m2 | 28 knots full | 25-120 AWA | 3Di Ocean 700 | ||||
Staysail | 30 m2 | 35 knots | 25-120 AWA | 3Di Ocean 700 | ||||
Code 65
(3Di Downwind) | 150 m2 | Downwind gennaker | 20 knots | 70-110 AWA | 3Di Downwind 706 8,820 Dpi
RAW Grey | €28,887 | Available in black
Will look a lot better in 3 to 4 year time than a Stormlite
Great shape holding, durability and weight
Downside: not good with flogging
5 years | |
A2 | 200 m2 | Medium-Air Runner | Up to 20 TWS | 70-130 AWA | NorLon150 (1.5 oz) | € 10,981 | 211 m2 | Sail area comes from a basic calculation in North system (halyard height, SPL length ‘longeron’)
During design will re-adjust sail area
North Sail Snuffer
- ATN (foam)
Color: hot pink (color is coded, not impregnanted)
Black chevron trim (x3): contrast to see the luff |
S4 | 140 m2 | 24 knots | 130-180 AWA | Norlon 150 (inside) / 250 (outside) | ||||
Code 65
(Stormlite) | 148.66 m2 | Downwind gennaker | Up to 20 AWS
20+ TWS (no problem, adjust for comfort with 1 or 2 reef in the main) | Centered tack: 150 TWA
Windward bow: 165 TWA
Note: in light winds, could go as high as ~50 AWA or ~95 TWA but sail not designed for this purpose but might help after the genoa 90 TWA limit | Stormlite 210 (3.38 oz) | € 9,473 | 165-170 m2 | Durability
Average performance all around with both tight and wide AWA
Made out of polyester (stretchy)
- Could make it cheaper with Nylon
Ok in 5 knots but 8-10 knots will stretch
Ok for squalls
6 years
White, Red and Dark blue
UV protection (light cloth): affects shape and weight - NO
Varnish as a paint on leech and foot
Cable (rope with anti torsion) included
Decision: Stormlite 210 in Red |
Code 65
(NPL) | 148 m2 | Downwind gennaker | Up to 20 AWS | NPL Code Xi TF1 Xi09 CDT | €16,875 | Less durability, especially for NPL
Fast all around, light
4 years | ||
Code 55 | 88 m2 | Up to 18 AWS | 3Di Downwind 706 12,600 Dpi
RAW Grey
Option UV € 1,500 | € 18,075 | ||||
Code 55 | 88 m2 | Up to 18 AWS | NPL Code Xi TF1 Xi14 CDT
Option UV € 1,500 | € 13,117 | ||||
Code 0 | 90-95 m2
(std Code 0 w/ jib) | |||||||
Downwind gennaker | Stormlite | 165-170 m2 | ||||||
S3 | Nylon 2.2oz | 220 m2 |
Q&A
I'm getting a bit confused between the different options and terminology so let me try to explain what I think we need for downwind sails from my point of view.
Our priority should be for good VMG downwind in both light and strong winds.
MAIN
- Material: 3Di Ocean 700 (UltraPE / Aramid Hybrid)
- Color: black
- Battens: Carbon (at cost)
- Trim / Draft stripes
- Need contrast so white is a good option
- Stitching for soft shackles
- Reefing hooks
- Numbers in the main
- USA or FRA 5204 (cost: nothing) - FREE
Hugues - Mostly performance. Sail shape will look a lot nicer and smoother with performant battens. By performant I mean stiff and reliable. Easy to repair with a repair kit.
GENOA
- Material: 3Di Ocean 700 (UltraPE / Aramid Hybrid)
- Color: black
- Telltale window (1)
- Issues with windows have been resolved based on warranty feedback (not on 3Di Ocean but on Imoca gennakers)
- Weakpoint in this area
- Material: plastic (T725) reinforced with Technora fibers - 3Di reinforcement through it.
- Trim stripes
- Meeting with Eloi
- Structural furling headstay: perfect for performance.
- Question: if repair needed then need to go up the mast
- Drum furler: ok with extra weight
- Single line
STAYSAIL
- Material: 3Di Ocean 700 (UltraPE / Aramid Hybrid)
- Color: black
CODE 65 (Downwind Gennaker)
- Material
- 3Di Downwind 706 (ultraPE / Aramid)
- XI 09 CDT
- Stormlite 210 - 3.38 oz (polyester based woven cloth)
- …
- Color: ?
- Options
706 Hybrid is reserved for Imoca and Ultim
XI 14 CDT might be a little too heavy for a Code 65
Requirements
- Good VMG downwind from 15 TWS and up (should be ok to keep up in squalls)
- Ok to trade some downwind angle compared to an A4 in order to have a 'safer' sail in stronger winds (thanks to the furling system) and therefore being able to keep it up longer (good option for night sailing and squalls)
. What would be the max TWA with the tack on the windward bow? 140 TWA on the windward bow or more?
Hugues: I would expect this sail to be ok sailing with a centered tack all the way down to 150° twa, and 165° twa on the weather hull. So pretty much same kind of range of the A2 but a lot "safer" since smaller and on a furler.
- Cut tolerant to big AWA changes
Hugues: oui, that means not too deep. advantage can be that you could use it in lighter winds with tighter awa (up to 50° awa or so).
=> Is it reasonable to expect this from a downwind gennaker? Or will it be too much sail area for 20+ TWS and squalls?
Hugues: Area needs to be reasonably large to be complementary (complémentaire en français....) to the A2 in a sense that we don't want it it to be too small. So in 20+ tws I see you sail with it no pb, adjusting comfort with a reef or 2 in the main pending on sea state and squalls.
90-120 TWA - What sail(s)?
- What sail(s) can we use for 90-120 TWA in both light and strong winds? How low can the genoa reasonably go? How high can the downwind gennaker (Code 65?) reasonably go?
Hugues: Like I said during our last visio, performance of genoa would decrease relative to the polar from about 90° and lower.It is very difficult to anticipate how much slower you will go as the apparent wind is relative to boat speed. When boat speed decreases, awa gets broader which creates a vicious circle.
With a Code65 it is likely that in light air you might be able to hold it up to 95° twa. However, remember that a code 65 is not designed for these tight angles, but they might be a good help to the genoa.
- Do we need a hybrid Code 0 / gennaker to close the gap between the genoa and downwind gennaker?
Hugues: My answer is no. I believe the Code 0 is already an expensive sail and it would be a shame to try to distort it as you might not be ever totally happy with it. It is okay for a real C0 to fill the gap between the Code65 and the genoa. Now again, I am not sure you really need a Code 0 as I fear you would get tired to change sails too often after a while, and you will find your genoa, code65, A2 setup performant enough to fulfill your needs.
Can you clarify?
- "The Code 65 is likely to be a sail to be used as a substitute of the A2." & "So Code 65 will be your downwind gennaker."
. By the above, do you mean the Code 65 will be a good solution to the A2 for 20 TWS and above?
- How does the Code 55 with a flatter cut and much smaller sail area than the Code 65 (88 vs. 148 m2) fit as a solution in this sail plan?
A2
- Material: NorLon 150 (1.5 oz)
- Color: fuchsia or red?
- Option: Trim chevron?
Hugues - Please check this link to find out. I feel the need to warn you that bright colors don't hold too well on our NorLon fabric as dye is impregnated in the yarns, as oppose to coated for racing fabric. We're confident with basic colors like blue red white green though. Not so much with fuchsia. I just wanted to let you know as I don't want you to tell me you sail locker has become pink and your sail brightness has faded away.
Requirements
- Good VMG downwind from 10 to 20 TWS (especially for 10-15 TWS)
- Ideally we can sail all the way down to 160 TWA with the tack on the windward bow.
- Cut tolerant to big AWA changes
Hugues: The way you present this sail is totally in line with the way we see it.
Neil Sails
- C65: 152 m2 - 10,850 dpi - 706
- A2: 250 m2 (standard is 230 m2)
- S3: 180 m2
Code 65
- Pricing
- Stormlite 210 (3.38 oz): € 9,473
- Surface Area: 148.66 m2
- Max Apparent Wind Speed (AWS): 20 knots
- The Code 65 is likely to be a sail to be used as a substitute of the A2.
- So cloth choice was led by a good sail all around however featuring best performance in the low range angle wise.
- It can still be used with some benefits on tighter apparent wind angles in light winds.
- Stormlite is a polyester based woven cloth, very good cloth for all purpose downwind sails.
- So Code65 will be your downwind gennaker.
- Note that Size might need to be adjusted when designed.
- I'll answer the Code65 range on another email.
Code 55
- Pricing
- 3Di Downwind 706 (UltraPE / Aramid) 12,600 Dpi: € 18,075
- Surface Area: 88.28 m2
- Max Apparent Wind Speed (AWS): 18 knots
- RAW grey (why not Ocean?)
- NPL Code Xi TF1 Xi14 CDT: € 13,117
- Xi Code – Aramid warp Insert and eXact scrim and light polyester film outer plies
- Xi Code T – Aramid warp Insert and eXact scrim, light polyester film outer ply and single light taffeta outer ply
- Surface area: 88.28 m2
- Max Apparent Wind Speed (AWS): 18 knots
- Option UV: € 1,500
- 55% at mid girth is more relevant for you.
- It is shown here with 2 choices of cloth:
- 3DI Downwind will provide the best sail both in shape, weight, and performance.
- NPL (North Panel Laminate) downwind will make a sail also very performant probably a little heavier, but cheaper than 3DI.
- Note that UV protection is in option as we don't always put it on.
A2
- Pricing
- 200m2 with snuffer NorLon150 (1.5 oz): € 10,981
- Surface Area: 200 m2
- Max Apparent Wind Speed (AWS): xx knots
SAIL PLAN
UPWIND
HELIX CODE 0 | HELIX CODE 65 | HELIX CODE 55 | HELIX CODE 50
The term ‘Code Sail’ means different things to different sailors. What started out as an innovative and straightforward concept has rapidly evolved into a whole new category of sails. While Code Sails may look and perform quite differently from one another, there is one common theme: Code Sails are fast, flat, free-flying sails, designed for close reaching angles.
To understand all the different names and versions, it may help to look back at the origin of these sails. Originally “Code Zeros” were designed to qualify as spinnakers under various rating rules that require the mid-girth to be 75% of the foot length. Volvo Ocean Racers coined the term Code Zero, which fit into the established North Sails coding convention: A1, A2, A3, etc. This design also became popular among handicap racers under Rules like IRC, ORR, and PHRF. As their effectiveness and ease of use became increasingly apparent, Code Sails expanded into cruising as well, and multihull sailors coined the term “Screechers” for their similar, specialized, high-performance reaching sails.
Code Sails add a great deal of sail area and power for close reaching angles. Boats with non-overlapping headsails see the biggest benefit from Code Sails, as they better fill the inventory gap between upwind headsails and downwind spinnakers.
Helix Code Sails are designed for ultimate versatility and steady power delivery. This new generation of Code Sails features a Structured Luff that optimally shares the overall load with a purpose-built Future Fibers cord; enabling steady power delivery, lower the total load, greater luff projection, and a wider range. The performance potential of Helix Code Sails is maximized with North 3Di but is also available for downwind paneled sails.
DOWNWIND
A North Cruising Gennaker is a free-flying, asymmetric spinnaker tacked to the bow or sprit and does not require a spinnaker pole, special hardware or rigging. North Gennakers are offered in three distinct models (Close Reacher, All-Purpose, Runner), one of which will be a perfect fit depending on your boat’s performance parameters and your preferred wind range. All Cruising Gennaker models feature a wide steering groove to ensure maximum versatility, which is especially important when cruising at night or by autopilot.
- G0 (CLOSE REACHER) Gennakers are compatible with North Snuffer Plus™ or internal luff rope top-down or bottom-up furlers.
- G1 (ALL PURPOSE) and G2 (RUNNER) Gennakers are compatible with North Snuffer Plus™ or external rope top-down furlers.
